White House press secretary Jay Carney had a heated exchange with ABC News' Jon Karl on Monday, mocking the reporter's line of questioning about Obamacare. Carney was asked about internal documents that show Obamacare applications submitted by phone or paper go through the same pipeline and system as the website, and do not take less time, as officials have previously said.
Carney said that the administration never said that the other applications would not go through healthcare.gov. Karl argued that that wasn't true. "You said there were four different ways," he insisted. "It all has to go through, as you just said, healthcare.gov."
"Jon, I get it!" he said. "But the person who calls isn't the one who continues to wait after the paper application is filled."
The full exchange is available below:
Q: I wanted to go back to exactly what the president said. He said you can bypass the website and apply by phone or in-person, and that it can be done in 25 minutes. But these memos say that at the end of the day, we are all stuck in the same queue, because they all have to go through the same portal.
MR. CARNEY: Jon, I get it, but the person who calls isn't the one who continues to wait after the application is filled, right?
Q: Your mocking is entertaining, but the president said that we — you could apply within 25 minutes. That was not true.
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MR. CARNEY: The work that you do — (chuckles) — I think everyone else is looking quizzically because there's a reason to be quizzical here. You call up, you give your information, you get the questions answered that you need answered, and then it's — they take over from there. And then you find out, you know, what you're eligible for and the process goes forward. Once you're —
Q: OK, in 25 minutes?
MR. CARNEY: No, once your process — you know, once your application is processed. The point was to relieve some of the frustration that Americans were understandably experiencing. And —
Q: But what's the part that takes 25 minutes? Maybe you could clarify that.
MR. CARNEY: The — well, you're — if it's an individual, roughly — this is on average — the interaction you have when you give the information in order — and you bypass the creation of an account and you sign up so that you didn't have to do that online. And then to enroll, obviously you would — that, you know, you would give in the information you need. That would be processed. You would find out how much you qualified for and you could be enrolled that way.
Q: But, Jay, what —
MR. CARNEY: But obviously — but, John, we have never said that you wouldn't — that the process — the end point of the process wouldn't still have to go through healthcare.gov. So this is not —
Q: Actually, that's not true, Jay. Look at your own words on October 21st, the same day. You said: You can enroll over the phone. You can enroll in person.
MR. CARNEY: Right.
Q: On October 23rd you said there are four ways to enroll in the exchanges. You didn't say they all have to go on healthcare.gov. You said there are four ways to enroll in the exchanges —
MR. CARNEY: John you don't have to go through healthcare.gov.
Q: — by phone, in person, at local health centers or by mail or the website. You said there were four different ways. There's only one way. It all has to go through, as you just said, healthcare.gov.
MR. CARNEY: I'm saying — what I said and what everybody said — and again, you know, you can — I — you can have this —
Q: I was here.
MR. CARNEY: — soliloquy by yourself, but the —
Q: No, I'm trying to understand why the president gave the American public the impression that they can imply — they could apply — not impression, told people they can apply in 25 minutes?
MR. CARNEY: They can get on the phone and call and the paperwork is filled out for them and the process is taken over from there.
Q: When do they enroll?
MR. CARNEY: When the — when their paperwork is processed through healthcare.gov. But they don't have to go online to do it, is the point, John. That was the whole purpose of while we are fixing the website, making it meet the standards that we set, that Americans had this alternative way with beefed up staffing and new rules allowing the call-in centers to do this — the individuals on the call-in centers to do this, to provide that relief to Americans who are frustrated by the experience.
I think you — I'm not sure what you think you've discovered here, Jon, but I mean, you were asking me — yes, I am.
Q: (Inaudible) — the president said you can bypass the website? Because you just said that it all has to go through the website. So which is it?
MR. CARNEY: Jon, I think we've been through this. The — you call —
Q: We haven't. This is —
MR. CARNEY: — you have an experience with — you have a conversation with somebody in the call-in center. You give them your information. They process it for you. They bypass the creation of an account, which is where most of the bottlenecks were happening for users on the website. Eventually that still has to go through HealthCare.gov, but you've done the work with —
Q: (Inaudible) — the eventually part.
MR. CARNEY: Jon, I give up. Yes.
Q: Well, let me — one more thing, from Kathleen Sebelius. Tell me if this was accurate. This was October 24th. She said out of the Phoenix call center, a person on the other end of the phone can get questions answered up to — in up to 150 languages as well as walk somebody all the way through the process and enroll at the end of the day.
MR. CARNEY: Right, at the end of the day. You give everybody — you give somebody your information. When you call up and sign up for something right now, Jon, and somebody takes your information and they process that, they process whatever it is you're signing up for and enrolling in, you know, they can do that once you're off the phone. You don't have to stay on the phone. That's the point is to relieve Americans who are frustrated by the — their own — all right.
Q: But you could enroll at the end of the day. Is that right? (Inaudible.)
MR. CARNEY: Jon, I think everybody else here understands what I'm saying. I'm sorry I can't say the same for you.